See also A short History of (Harry) Benjamin Syndrome
and Numbers and HBS.
and my review of Goiar's 2021 book.
Charlotte is a resident of Vigo in Galicia. She was diagnosed by the school psychologist as a trans child at age 7, and from age 16 was on hormonal therapy from the Vigo hospital - the first such patient to be so treated in Vigo. However she met much derision at school from both students and teachers and was unable to complete high school. Since 1991 she has been in psychiatric treatment, and living on welfare.
In the early 2000s Goiar proposed the concept of Síndrome de Harry Benjamin (Harry Benjamin Syndrome). The term had been pioneered by Tom Reucher in Paris with an inclusivist meaning, but Goiar changed the meaning to exclude most trans persons. She set up www.shb-info.org in 2005, and while posting on the Australian WOMAN forum encountered Diane Kearny in the US, who had similar opinions. They initially worked together, but then split and in competition both set up web sites, Yahoo forums and Standards of Care.
In 2004, the Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party (PSOE) became the government, and quickly implemented gay marriage, but kept delaying the promised Ley de Identidad de Género (Gender Identity Law) until prominent trans woman and PSOE activist Carla Antonelli threatened a hunger strike and this attracted international press attention. The law was passed in 2007, and Carla, Charlotte and many others were able to change their legal name and gender as surgery was not a requirement.
A decree by the previous government in 1995 had prohibited public health services from paying for transgender surgery. This was rescinded, also in 2007. By then, Andalusia had already been performing these operations for eight years, and this region was later joined by Madrid, Catalonia and the Basque Country. Aragon and Extremadura paid to have patients treated elsewhere. However Galicia and other regions did what they could to avoid offering transgender surgery.
Charlotte described HBS: 1
Despite Charlotte’s on-going non-surgical status, the Spanish HBS movement was critical of the UK and Spanish laws permitting gender change without surgery, and most well-known transsexual activists have been disparaged on her forum in that they are not anti-transgender (that is against all trans persons who are not HBS). Carla Antonelli was criticized for representing Spanish transsexuals despite being non-op – but Charlotte’s continuing pre-op status was not mentioned. Charlotte expressed approval of the situation for transsexuals in Iran. She objected to the term ‘transsexuality’, as opposed to 'transsexualism', as pejorative in that she took it to imply a choice.
Charlotte Goiar became a member of the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), a Church of Scientology front organization that uses Thomas Szasz as a spokesman. For several years she featured a 90 minute CCHR video on her HBS home page. Further, Charlotte proclaimed that she was a licensed Human Rights Investigator: this was only a CCHR bestowed title.
In 2008 Charlotte was assigned a court-appointed counsel, and with his help, induced a Vigo judge to recognize her problem, and rule that her "anxious-depressive syndrome" was caused by her discomfort with her body. However the court ruled against her request for surgery in that such surgery was not available in Galicia.
Charlotte was antagonistic to the STP 2012 depathologization campaign by other transsexuals, and emphasized in contrast that HBS want medical repathologization. A petition sponsored by SHB-Info.org was signed by 500 persons and was sent to the World Health Organization asking that transsexualism be recognized, not as a psychological disorder, but as a medical one.
The HBS forum was discontinued and closed in 2011.
In 2012, her mother - the one person who had stood with her – died. Charlotte
underwent a religious crisis:
Charlotte won a ruling in the Galician High Court that Servizo Galego de Saúde (SERGAS), the Galician Health Service, should pay for her to have genital surgery. However the Galician government appealed to the Spanish Supreme Court, which in turn also found in Goiar's favour in May 2013. By September, as SERGAS had taken no steps to conform with the ruling, Goiar went to the press. SERGAS then wasted almost two years sending Charlotte to public clinics in Málaga and Barcelona that did not do the required type of operation. In 2015, at age 42, Charlotte finally had surgery in the private Instituto de Cirurxía Plástica, Barcelona, with Dr Iván Mañero - the only clinic in Spain to offer colovaginoplasty. Before the operation she asked for pastoral accompaniment, which led to her meeting Carlos Osma of Christianos Gays.
http://shb-info.org was taken down that year.
In 2017, Charlotte allied herself with the ultra-Catholic Hazte Oír and its
opposition to sex education and to ‘gender ideology’. She is also claiming that
the new ICD-11 term Gender Incongruence is the same thing as HBS.
www.shb-info.org is now derelict.
According to the Spanish newspapers Charlotte at 41, despite being on female hormones since age 16 and legally female since the Ley de Identidad de Género in 2007, still has no work experience. Surgery will of course make her feel more confident, and the legal precedent she has set does far more good than all the HBS stuff, but as any cis woman would tell her, being a 40+ woman with neither job nor life partner is not an easy road.
What would the actual Harry Benjamin have thought of the HBS movement? He writes with regret of intolerance: “Too man
y individuals are that way; what they do not like must be forbidden and punished. Then they are satisfied. I have even met transvestites who dislike (or pretend to dislike) transsexualism so much that they are against estrogen treatment and operation (for reasons of self protection?). There are also transsexuals who dislike transvestites as well as homosexuals. Intolerance can be found in strange quarters.” The Transsexual Phenomenon, p114-5 of the Warner Books 1977 edition.
Surely, those who organize in his name, should respect his sentiment.
Charlotte is a resident of Vigo in Galicia. She was diagnosed by the school psychologist as a trans child at age 7, and from age 16 was on hormonal therapy from the Vigo hospital - the first such patient to be so treated in Vigo. However she met much derision at school from both students and teachers and was unable to complete high school. Since 1991 she has been in psychiatric treatment, and living on welfare.
In the early 2000s Goiar proposed the concept of Síndrome de Harry Benjamin (Harry Benjamin Syndrome). The term had been pioneered by Tom Reucher in Paris with an inclusivist meaning, but Goiar changed the meaning to exclude most trans persons. She set up www.shb-info.org in 2005, and while posting on the Australian WOMAN forum encountered Diane Kearny in the US, who had similar opinions. They initially worked together, but then split and in competition both set up web sites, Yahoo forums and Standards of Care.
In 2004, the Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party (PSOE) became the government, and quickly implemented gay marriage, but kept delaying the promised Ley de Identidad de Género (Gender Identity Law) until prominent trans woman and PSOE activist Carla Antonelli threatened a hunger strike and this attracted international press attention. The law was passed in 2007, and Carla, Charlotte and many others were able to change their legal name and gender as surgery was not a requirement.
A decree by the previous government in 1995 had prohibited public health services from paying for transgender surgery. This was rescinded, also in 2007. By then, Andalusia had already been performing these operations for eight years, and this region was later joined by Madrid, Catalonia and the Basque Country. Aragon and Extremadura paid to have patients treated elsewhere. However Galicia and other regions did what they could to avoid offering transgender surgery.
Charlotte described HBS: 1
"Harry Benjamin Syndrome (HBS) is an intersex condition developed in the very early stages of pregnancy affecting the physical process of differentiation between male and female. In this patients, the brain develops as a certain sex but the rest of the body takes on the physical characteristics of the opposite sex. Genetic aetiology for this condition had been showed also by modern medical research.
Today, what was previously known as intense True Transsexualism is considered by medical res earch experts in this area as a physiological condition of birth, which is both neurological and genetic in origin, and therefore an inborn intersex condition (physiological). That is why by following the medical naming conventions in regard to physiologically intersexed states or syndromes, the condition formerly known as intense True Transsexualism (Type VI on the diagnosis table of Harry Benjamin), must be named Harry Benjamin Syndrome.
Since people with Harry Benjamin Syndrome are conventional in their gender identity and expression, like most members of society, these people need a physical rehabilitation of their endocrine system and phenotype in order to function in society as any other average person.
They are not seeking to defy social norms of gender or sexuality as is the case of transgender and most who call themselves transsexuals .
People with Harry Benjamin Syndrome as a group are naturally opposed to ambiguous groups of sex and/or gender such as transgender persons and most who call themselves transsexuals. People with Harry Benjamin Syndrome are not a part of a supposed continuum with these other states of sexual or gender-related ambiguity.
Despite the confusion in terminology with the old concept of True "Transsexualism", persons with Harry Benjamin Syndrome (which in reality is a type of intersex condition) should not be confused with transgenderism and other ambiguous sexual states in general.
People born with Harry Benjamin Syndrome are persons with a binary gender orientation of either Man or Woman, as any other average person in society. Their identity is woman or man, never "transsexual". Therefore they need a complete physical rehabilitation in order to function sexually and develop socially as any other average person in our society.
People with Harry Benjamin Syndrome repudiate sexual ambiguity and don't feel identified with sexually ambiguous labels like "transsexual" or "transgender" which neither define nor represent them."Initially Goiar claimed that 1:500 are HBS, but has been reducing the frequency and on 2009 said that HBS is "an extremely rare condition [1:100,000]" (which would mean that HBS persons are only a fraction of 1% of transsexuals). She is further contentious in that she and her movement have become known for disparaging other trans persons, even post-ops, and GLBT persons in general.
Despite Charlotte’s on-going non-surgical status, the Spanish HBS movement was critical of the UK and Spanish laws permitting gender change without surgery, and most well-known transsexual activists have been disparaged on her forum in that they are not anti-transgender (that is against all trans persons who are not HBS). Carla Antonelli was criticized for representing Spanish transsexuals despite being non-op – but Charlotte’s continuing pre-op status was not mentioned. Charlotte expressed approval of the situation for transsexuals in Iran. She objected to the term ‘transsexuality’, as opposed to 'transsexualism', as pejorative in that she took it to imply a choice.
Charlotte Goiar became a member of the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), a Church of Scientology front organization that uses Thomas Szasz as a spokesman. For several years she featured a 90 minute CCHR video on her HBS home page. Further, Charlotte proclaimed that she was a licensed Human Rights Investigator: this was only a CCHR bestowed title.
In 2008 Charlotte was assigned a court-appointed counsel, and with his help, induced a Vigo judge to recognize her problem, and rule that her "anxious-depressive syndrome" was caused by her discomfort with her body. However the court ruled against her request for surgery in that such surgery was not available in Galicia.
Charlotte was antagonistic to the STP 2012 depathologization campaign by other transsexuals, and emphasized in contrast that HBS want medical repathologization. A petition sponsored by SHB-Info.org was signed by 500 persons and was sent to the World Health Organization asking that transsexualism be recognized, not as a psychological disorder, but as a medical one.
The HBS forum was discontinued and closed in 2011.
“I had never imagined and I still do not understand what guilt I have of being born with this pathology, and the hatred that it awakens in so many people. I felt so vulnerable. … Through a Christian English friend, little by little I began to study some Christian texts. This was how, little by little, I found relief in God, as a way to leave the course of everything in the hands of a force superior to me, so I began to read the Bible for the first time shortly after turning 40 years old.”She became a cristiana metodista (Methodist). 2
Charlotte won a ruling in the Galician High Court that Servizo Galego de Saúde (SERGAS), the Galician Health Service, should pay for her to have genital surgery. However the Galician government appealed to the Spanish Supreme Court, which in turn also found in Goiar's favour in May 2013. By September, as SERGAS had taken no steps to conform with the ruling, Goiar went to the press. SERGAS then wasted almost two years sending Charlotte to public clinics in Málaga and Barcelona that did not do the required type of operation. In 2015, at age 42, Charlotte finally had surgery in the private Instituto de Cirurxía Plástica, Barcelona, with Dr Iván Mañero - the only clinic in Spain to offer colovaginoplasty. Before the operation she asked for pastoral accompaniment, which led to her meeting Carlos Osma of Christianos Gays.
http://shb-info.org was taken down that year.
In 2017, Charlotte allied herself with the ultra-Catholic Hazte Oír and its
opposition to sex education and to ‘gender ideology’. She is also claiming that
the new ICD-11 term Gender Incongruence is the same thing as HBS.
- www.shb-info.org/goiar.html. Taken down 2015
- www.myspace.com/goiar REMOVED early 2009.
- Laura Amato. Laura's Harry Benjamin Syndrome HBS: A Peer Review http://harrybenjaminsyndrome-not-transsexual.com.
- http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/HarryBenjaminsSyndrome. Closed in 2011.
- Ángel Paniagua. "Primera condena al Sergas a pagar una operación de cambio de sexo: El Tribunal Superior da la razón a una viguesa que sufre transexualismo". La Voz de Galicia, 13 de marzo de 2012. www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/sociedad/2012/03/13/primera-condena-sergas-pagar-operacion-cambio-sexo/0003_201203G13P28991.htm.
- "El Supremo ratifica la condena a Galicia a pagar una operación de cambio de sexo". 20minutos, 01,09.2013. www.20minutos.es/noticia/1907927/0/supremo-ratifica/condena-galicia-pagar/operacion-cambio-sexo.
- Silvia Pontevedra. "Unprecedented legal victory as health service is made to cover gender reassignment". El Pais In English, 6 Sep 2013. http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/09/06/inenglish/1378470581_127491.html?rel=rosEP.
- “A xustiza obriga a Xunta a pagarlle a operación de cambio de sexo á viguesa Charlotte Goiar”. Praza Publica, 18, Xulli 2014. http://praza.gal/movementos-sociais/7568/a-xustiza-obriga-a-xunta-a-pagarlle-a-operacion-de-cambio-de-sexo-a-viguesa-charlotte-goiar.
- Carlos Osma. “Charlotte Goiar: "El prejuicio es humano, no es de Dios, Dios es amor". Una cristiana que hace unos meses se sometió a una operación de reasignación de sexo y ha querido compartir con nosotros su experiencia.” Homoprostestantes, 2016/07. https://homoprotestantes.blogspot.ca/2016/07/el-prejuicio-es-humano-no-es-de-dios.html.
- Elena Ocampo. “La viguesa Charlotte, primera en lograr un cambio de sexo en el Supremo, apoya a Hazte Oír: Miembros del colectivo LGTBI gallego, ‘indignados’ tras su respaldo público a la plataforma ultracatólica”. Faro de Vigo, 09.03.2017. www.farodevigo.es/sociedad/2017/03/09/viguesa-charlotte-goiar-primera-mujer/1637862.html.
- “Charlotte Goiar, primera mujer trans en reasignar su sexo con el respaldo del Supremo apoya a Hazte Oír”. Cristianos Gays, 14 de marzo de 2017. http://www.cristianosgays.com/tags/charlotte-goiar.
- “Charlotte Goiar: ‘El matrimonio homosexual debería tener otro nombre, porque matrimonio viene de madre’ “. Actuall, 11/07/2017. www.actuall.com/entrevista/familia/charlotte-goiar-matrimonio-homosexual-deberia-nombre-matrimonio-viene-madre/
- Goiar rephrased her description of HBS several times. This version was written for the short-lived Google Knol, and later added to www.shb-info.org.
- Translation from Carlos Osma’s blog.
www.shb-info.org is now derelict.
According to the Spanish newspapers Charlotte at 41, despite being on female hormones since age 16 and legally female since the Ley de Identidad de Género in 2007, still has no work experience. Surgery will of course make her feel more confident, and the legal precedent she has set does far more good than all the HBS stuff, but as any cis woman would tell her, being a 40+ woman with neither job nor life partner is not an easy road.
What would the actual Harry Benjamin have thought of the HBS movement? He writes with regret of intolerance: “Too man
y individuals are that way; what they do not like must be forbidden and punished. Then they are satisfied. I have even met transvestites who dislike (or pretend to dislike) transsexualism so much that they are against estrogen treatment and operation (for reasons of self protection?). There are also transsexuals who dislike transvestites as well as homosexuals. Intolerance can be found in strange quarters.” The Transsexual Phenomenon, p114-5 of the Warner Books 1977 edition.Surely, those who organize in his name, should respect his sentiment.
I think she's a delusional, and mean-spirited. It's one thing to propose an idea like HBS (which I have very mixed feelings about, yet vaguely get the concept...) but then to go ahead and disparage other trans-connected people just because they aren't exactly like her and therefore somehow not as deserving of civil rights and respect, is bigoted and close minded. For myself, if one has transition to obtain your final gendered spot in society, you are, on some level, trans. And if it specifically involves the bodymapping of your genitals (and other body parts) then you're a transsexual person. Sorry Charlotte.
ReplyDeleteShe or her friends will be soon asking you to take down this listing. She did for the piece I had about her. LOL It is still there. She is important even is many think she is attempting to divide the community.
ReplyDeletehttp://vickiedavis.blogspot.com/2008/10/charlotte-goiar-revieled.html
"Charlotte is a Barcelona resident and a licensed Human Rights Investigator."
ReplyDeleteIt's logical to propose that some forms of transgender (maybe even all) may have one or more forms of biological causation. And in some cases we do in fact have a good pile of evidence.
But human rights don't spring from biological causation. Human Rights allow for lots of choice (example: religion). And if she opposes Transgender Equality as much as some of the bigots amongst the HBS crowd (thankfully there are a few HBS folk who dont disparage others or insist on putting their own interpretation of transgender over others identities) then she is an enemy of human rights and needs that license revoked!
If on the other hand she is not or no longer against GLB and Transgender equality and is ready to support the full Yogyakarta Principles then her licence is appropriate but I think she needs to vocally and publicly admonish those in her movement which do.
I've heard someone claim that an HBS group was associated with a bullycide (where someone kills themselves in response to bullying) and if this was so then I hope she will publicly condemn that.
I think Charlotte Goiar is just trying to separate the concept of Transsexualism from Psychiatry, and thats why the HBS community born after her work follows her, because Transsexualism in its intense form is still misunderstood with the general transgender population, while HBS is in fact a proven intersex condition, thats why Charlotte try to keep the psychiatric diagnosis out of reach for this condition. You can read more about her work at: http://shb-info.org/hbs.html
ReplyDeleteWhat I sincerely believe, is that there are people who only wish to undermine what Charlotte is trying to convey. I have been a supporter of HBS within Spanish forums, and I have been confronted with the manipulations and lies of people who only wish to denounce HBS in it's entirety. I have met many many people online who have only distorted the truth about HBS. HBS is in it's infancy, and in fact, will flourish, because in truth, it is a valid attempt at seeking more understanding about the transsexual condition. The force of the Transgender movement will not be able to deter progress, very unlike transgenderism, having been pushed into people's faces, but instead, to help create enough opening into the reality of true transsexuality whereas it is finally treated as an Intersex condition of birth, rather than a choice postulated by societal influences. I praise and support Charlotte for what she is doing. Eventually, the truth will surface, along with the proof that much of the dissension against her has been enforced of other people's ignorance and hatred.
ReplyDeleteJune Hingle
Laura, of Laura's Playground will do everything she can to destroy the work of Charlotte. She, like several very hateful and ignorant people, have only wished to undermine Charlotte's intentions, and her organization. Laura has created an aura of hate, and THAT is what will deter HBS from succeeding. I have seen several HBS websites popping up, some that are paradoxical to the cause of HBS. If people like Laura can't learn to except that people have their own feelings, then there will never be a meeting of minds, and HBS, will just have to move on without her.
ReplyDeleteHBS activism have nothing to do with transgenderists or the whole GLBT community. HBS activism is focused on remove the diagnosis of TSism or GID from DSM. In http://shb-info.org/hbs.html you can read about it. Laura's Playground is a TG site. HBS International is a site focused on other purposes related with people with HBS who don't feel identified with the whole GLBT lobby, but with another purposes, they try not change anything into the TG lobby, they are just a separate working group focused in another goals, as the need for all people with need of Sex Affirmation Surgery to get this bodies aligned with their identities while separating the condition from the realm of psychiatry. I really value Charlotte's work and hope to see TSism as well as GID removed from the DSM under a more appropriate name for this condition as Charlotte Goiar propose.
ReplyDeleteThe right of HBS people to self-define and self-identify is a fundamental human right I support.
ReplyDeleteHowever many HBS advocates attack the assertion of that same right by self-identified Transgender people and GLB people.
Many directly oppose antidiscrimination and civil rights measures for Transgender people beyond criteria that covers only those who could be classed as HBS.
I support the rights and needs of HBS people. Some HBS people support mine.
However many HBS advocates do not merely work towards the rights of HBS people but directly oppose Transgender and GLB equality. This harms both groups wasting valuable time and resources in moronic internecine conflict.
It is also counter to the mutual recognition of our Universal Human Rights we are all obligated to in order to validly claim them for ourselves!
If however this was to change, if HBS advocates would stop insisiting on not just defining themselves which is valid but in defining others contrary to their own self definition which is not then this stupid petty conflict could swiftly end.
As I said before, human rights exist regardless of causation. Biological cause or choice are both valid reasons for the rights detailed in The Yogyakarta Principles.
And current evidence for HBS biological causality does not preclude related or unrelated biological causality for other Transgender people. The evidence has not yet been looked for, the black box is not yet opened so we cannot determine the state of Schrodingers Cat!
Though the biological evidence related to homosexuality compared to straight sex-specific averages of brain architecture and activity is similar enough to that of transsexuals that HBS people may find themselves identified far more with gays and lesbians than they seem to wish!
Bridges of mutual respect for universal rights can be built between HBS and Transgender advocates. With GLB too. Human Rights principles in fact demand this of us.
I notice that the crossdresser Victor Davis is here. He likes to join groups on Yahoo! to mine for addresses and spam them with unwanted crossdresser and TG materials. I am a member of TS-Specific, and we only allow preop and post-op true-TSs who have mainstream values and who are not a part of the TG nor LGBT movements. Courtney, a moderator friend of mine, has banned him multiple times from multiple groups. He seems to like to put his crossdresser photos everywhere, even in places where crossdressers are not allowed, and he even sends crossdresser emails to members of TS-only groups where the members don't support CDers anymore than other mainstream women.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to trash anyone, I just want the TGists and other CDers to stay out of OUR TS-ONLY spaces. They should join LGBT groups and spaces for TG/CD males who do not have TSism. We TSs are gender conformists, and we want gender variant people to stay away from us and leave us alone.
Hi
ReplyDeleteI'm just reading your blog and the attack on that lovely looking Charlotte?
She looks just like a lovely woman while you - although you say you transitioned to female in 1988 - look like the quintessential bloke in a frock of the typical autogyne.
What I find amusing is that you side with the Hartigan person against Charlotte Goiar and can't even give Charlotte Goiar the respect of using her full name or in fact her first name which is how women relate to each other.
Reading between the lines and studying your photo I see the very typical autogyne - yes you may have done a genital switch but you haven't changed sex...you were and are a TG who went a little too far.
I don't really want to look at much more of the posts on your website but you certainly have a big following of GLBT folk. Charlotte Goiar hasn't.
Fleur
Fleur,
ReplyDeleteWhy do you not give Margaret O'Hartigan the respect of using her full name, or even of spelling her name correctly?
Reread the post on Goiar above. I actually referred to her as Charlotte.
You don't seem to understand that Margaret and Charlotte are saying almost the same thing. If the HBS-ists cannot identify with Margaret, they cannot work with anyone.
You would seem to be lookist, ageist and anti-feminist. Are you suggesting that I put up a photograph from twenty years ago, when I was much younger looking?
I see from your comment on Women Born Transsexual that you are a 57-year old pre-op. Blanchard of course would regard you as a classic autogynephile. There seem to be several such self-describing as HBS. Interesting.
Are you going to provide a photograph of yourself for comparison. You are a few years younger than me, and so have the advantage.
And what is an 'autogyne'? An autonomous woman. Yes, I am an autonomous woman.
MODERATION
ReplyDeleteI see from sitemeter that HBS supporters have been emailing each other and then jumping to this posting to post HBS manifestoes. I closed this posting to comments for a while to stop that. I have now reopened the comments. If you have something to say about Charlotte, or about the other comments, I will release your comment. If it is just a rehash of the HBS manifesto, I will not.
If your personal friends were here supporting what you have to say, I am sure that you would never close the discussion. What you do is the typical manifesto of an egoist who will not support anything outside of the parameters of narrow-minded arrogance. The freedom of speech within your bubble is soooo stuck in it, nowhere else.
ReplyDeleteDiscussion Closed!
An anon anounces a discussion closed? WTF?
ReplyDeleteAnd because a blogger is moderating comments on their blog like most bloggers do?
Maybe if all HBS blogs were a little more freedom-of-speech oriented that might not be so hypocritically laughable.
But I recall one where rather than actually responding to any of comments reasoning I got blocked for 'not having a proper name'. Guess she didn't notice the GOTH Cultural Practice of having a GOTH net-name. Not only was it bigoted against a worldwide subculture but also a massive logical fallacy. A clear Ad Hominem dismissing the messanger rather than facing the message.
If HBS views cannot withstand direct rational scrutiny they must have little value. If HBS advocates cannot discuss a topic and complain when off-topic diatribes are not permitted and they must stick to the subject at hand it suggests that they have nothing of value to contribute to the discussion.
There is a direct logical conclusion we can make about HBS and it's advocates own views of Charlotte. That whether or not her views and actions can be defended they clearly must think that they cannot resulting in no serious attempts to try, merely reflexive hostile attacks that telegraph their own failures.
HBS folks do not claim for separatism but for DIVERSITY, which is a very different thing.
ReplyDeleteI've been a member of HBS Int forums for a while and definitely the Administrator of these forums has not responsibility for all the posts and writtings left there by other members.
And to say that Charlotte is "anti-transgender" is false, otherwise show me where in the net Charlotte says that she is "anti-transgender", not what others could write or not in her forums, but what SHE says.
That Charlot Guren or Goiar or whatever the multiple names she uses is just a fraude, a scam to make money and position nothing else...
ReplyDelete"And to say that Charlotte is "anti-transgender" is false, otherwise show me where in the net Charlotte says that she is "anti-transgender", not what others could write or not in her forums, but what SHE says."
ReplyDeleteShe needn't label herself as anti-transgender to make anti-transgender statements or actions. That said I would like to hear in detail the pro and anti TG things either side could quote.
Let her words and deeds be her measure on being anti-TG or not.
It wasn't easy to separate Transsexualism from the Gay world, even today mainstream people think about sex orientation and gender identity as the same kind of issues. However some degree of separation has been achieved for the understanding of sexual orientation and gender identity as separate issues even in the same person.
ReplyDeleteOne step more into this refinement cames now with the understanding of intense gender dysphoria pain with the need of corrective surgery, for one hand, and the general transgender population's needs for the other hand.
It's very positive what Charlotte Goiar is doing, focusing her work on people born with the more intense form of cross-sex feelings and the attention they need from a medical and legal field.
It has nothing to do with the claims of transgender people.
Marco
Charlotte Goiar is a transsexual woman, who does not know at all the studies of Dr. Harry Benjamin, a translation in their forums completely undermining transsexual reality, creating a classic in the same terms including the mother of the fascist lower transsexual Argentina, Ana Maria and "Naty", which the three, along with June Hingle who also claims to be desdendiente of Queen Victoria. That they can think of transgendered people, who do not wish to be recognized as such, and even if one claims to be a descendant of Queen Victoria?
ReplyDeleteRight now the "HBS International Founder", is being investigated by the Justice
ReplyDeleteSpanish for blackmail, impersonation,
coercion and threats on the person of Carla Antonelli.
Antonelli takes a situation that endured for
more than two years.
I think it is time to take seriously
the level of madness, fanaticism and even dangerous
these people.
"Right now the "HBS International Founder", is being investigated by the Justice
ReplyDeleteSpanish for blackmail, impersonation,
coercion and threats on the person of Carla Antonelli."
Got a link for that?
"If you have something to say about Charlotte, or about the other comments, I will release your comment. If it is just a rehash of the HBS manifesto, I will not. "
ReplyDeleteTranslation: "If someone want to talk anything bad about Charlotte, you´re welcome!"
That´s the finality of all your posts here.
Well, Chrysalis, even though you have visited my Goiar page four times today, you still cannot think of anything, good or bad, to say about the woman.
ReplyDeleteChrysalis if you are claiming that relevant posts in favour of Charlotte that are not "just a rehash of the HBS manifesto" are somehow being unfairly censored then you are welcome to post such on the comments on one of my HBS mentioning posts on my own blog... where they will serve as a test of your claim for if they are "just a rehash of the HBS manifesto" then your claim that only bad things may be said about her here will be refutted. Of course there wont be any way to prove you have been hard done by unless you can show that a valid pro-Charlotte comment that is not "just a rehash of the HBS manifesto" was itself rejected from here.
ReplyDeleteYour comment will not be deleted out of turn on my blog of course, but it will however be subject to rigourous critical examination... I am no enemy of the HBS argument of a biological causality for sex and gender spectrum phenomena however the bigoted claims often nestled within many HBS arguments that exist sans science (especially the untested unscientific claim that for example bi-gender genderqueer and crossdresser phenomena are not similarly biologically caused as thats an easilly falsifiable claim that has not yet been tested and so canot be said to be fact but merely one of several alternate untested hypthoses)
I can assure everyone that Charlotte is very real, and her cause is meant to clarify the transsexual condition. The word "transsexual" has been misused by many people who often need to change it's definition to justify their own personal condition, even to the point of saying it is a "construct". One of the most active proponents of that "construct" is Mariana Federico Casas. Mariana, along with her personal friends have collaborated on her use of propaganda, and manipulation in order to deflect away from any attempts of people to express the truth.
ReplyDeleteWhat has happened in recent years, is that many people in whom we've entrusted our respect as spokepersons for other "transsexuals", have sided with people who have no qualms about destroying the meaning of "transsexualism", and that includes hurting people who would not harm a fly.
Many years ago I was attacked by a rapist. I almost committed suicide, and the pain of that moment still remains with me, but one good outcome was to have the privilege of testifying at my State Legislature in support of a bill the protect many people, including those Transgendered who have suffered discrimination, and harm because of ignorance and hate.
When I see people denouncing someone who is campaigning for the "Good" of other people, my heart seems to fail me, but my spirit leads me to speak out for the truth.
Several months ago Andrea James was coerced into formulating a complain againt HBS. Andrea used the nickname "Jokestress". The person who manipulated Ms James was Mariana Federico Casas. Mariana is an attorney from Buenos Aires. If you go to the forums: www.figinternet.org ,and to it's archives, you will discover that Mariana has been so obsessed with any mention of Harry Benjamin Syndrome (SHB in Spanish) that she would go to any extent to deny it, and to demean it. Several years ago Mariana began a thread in Figinternet that was meant to humiliate me, and to destroy my character. I have never lied in my life. Mariana posted an endless list of lies about me. I immediately exposed Mariana for what she was. The following week her friend Brigitte Carla Gambini created an elaborate hoax by posting a notice that Mariana got married, and changed her name to "Baires", which was absolutely untrue. Mariana then had Andrea Planelles Aparicio, the owner of the Figinternet site remove her post about me, and my post that denounced Mariana's lies, and manipulations. Mariana also goes by the name "Laura Rivas". Here are a few links showing the harm that Mariana aka Laura Rivas has done to many honest, and sincere people, including myself:
http://www.carlaantonelli.com/foros/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13228
http://www.figinternet.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4597&sid=555606dd3582bfbd67ebad9970ce1e1e
http://www.figinternet.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4948&sid=08b7767e72e15d29409cfcfc9c33ddcc
http://www.figinternet.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1996
http://www.figinternet.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=1295&start=765
http://www.figinternet.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=4979&start=0&sid=924b6ffc79012b18062f81dee7dc3b82
http://www.figinternet.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=2076&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
June
If you follow up the links given by June you will quickly realize that she is June Hingle. Last April, she posted 14 comments under the name Meeercyme on the AriaBlue blog giving much of her life story, and saying much the same as she is saying here. Click here to read them. Much of it is a rehash of old grievances against Lynn Conway and Carla Antonelli.
ReplyDeleteTo answer June's points. I have never implied that Goiar does not exist. However we know almost nothing about her other than she is the owner of HBS International, and that she deprecates 99% of transsexuals. There is little enough unity among trans people and Goiar has done more than her share to cause divisions.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that she is a proud agent of CCHR, a front for the Church of Scientology, is quite peculiar. June and the others who would support her never seem to talk about this aspect.
Dear Zagria,
ReplyDeleteThe hate against "transsexuals" did not come from Charlotte. The person that I mentioned, Mariana F. Casas, was the person who created the hate on Carla Antonelli's behalf. She is the person that infiltrated the HBS forums to create dissension between members, and posted private emails on Carla Antonelli's website in order to propagate the fight against the HBS cause. You have to understand the politics.
I feel bad for Charlotte because she has really tried to do some good. :(
What has happened in Spain is much different from what happened in the US. The word "transsexual" was used by Carla Antonelli as a substitute for the word "transgender". Up until just a few years ago Carla would never speak of the word "transgender". Through the confusion of Carla's redefining of the word "transsexual" which then became the "umbrella" word instead of "transgender", and her ignorance of the World Health Organization, and the HBIGD Standards, the CRS (SRS) surgeon Dr. Ivan Manero, probably the best surgeon of this type in Spain has bowed out of doing the surgery on just anyone who asks for it. Dr. Manero is now a trusted believer in what Charlotte's HBS group has been trying to convey, and that is to treat the people who are genuinely TS as people, not sideshow freaks, which had become the case within the past few years in Spain. Carla Antonelli's definition of "Transexual" includes all types, such as transvestites, and drag-queens. Charlotte has only been trying to bring back a little credibility to the word "transexual". That is all it is.
Please do not make judgments based on what people like Mariana Casas say. Please look into your heart, and try to read the truth from what I have told you.
We have only one chance on this Earth. I don't want to leave it with regretting that I've been here.
Bless you for trying to bring people together,
June
The scientology connection is interesting, but is it substantially relevant though? Does it effect her views and behaviour on this subject or is it incidental?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, as for adding transvestites reducing the credibility of the term transsexual.. well when finally we do have comparative biological studies done we may well have no choice, for just as Autism ranges from severe to mild so might the neurological variation of Transsexualism, and what would a mild case of Transsexualism be like if not the bi-gender gender identities of most crossdressers?
As it is Gays and Lesbians have also been found to have cross-sex neurology. And there's anecdotal evidence of crossdressing being hereditary, the case of Peter "Pip" Wherrett being one example and this case http://www.news.com.au/national/autistic-boy-ruled-ok-for-sex-change/story-e6frfkvr-1225977521818 reminds me of the discovery that some autistic children have parents with mild autism traits.
It looks like she will get her state paid SRS soon. Good for her. It just shows what one person can do.
ReplyDeleteTranssexual wins state-paid sex change op
Published: 05 Sep 2013 11:14 GMT+02:00
Spain's Supreme Court has forced the government of Galicia to pay for a sex change operation in a landmark ruling.
Charlotte Goiar has been embroiled in a six-year long struggle with Galicia's government in the hope of obtaining the necessary funds for a vaginoplasty.
"I've not managed to be happy a single day of my life," Goiar told Spanish daily El País, speaking about the psychological problems that stem from her being trapped in a man's body.
Aware of her condition from a very early age, she's found it hard to find work and fit in due to the anxiety and depression disorders she suffers from.
Goiar may now have set a precedent for other Spanish people trapped in a body they feel is not theirs, having obtained the go-ahead for a state-paid €15,000 to €25,000 sex change operation.
"I can't imagine a greater defect for a woman than having a penis," Goiar told El País as she spoke of her repulsion at seeing herself naked in the mirror.
Until 1981, doctors who carried out sex change operations in Spain faced a prison sentence.
Private clinics were the first to undertake these complex medical procedures although public health centres did carry out operations on babies born with both sex organs.
The current situation varies from region to region, with Andalusia having pioneered public sex change operations in 1999.
http://www.thelocal.es/20130905/transsexual-wins-state-paid-sex-change-op
According to the Spanish newspapers Charlotte at 41, despite being on female hormones since age 16 and legally female since the Ley de Identidad de Género in 2007, still has no work experience. Surgery will of course make her feel more confident, and the legal precedent she has set does far more good than all the HBS stuff, but as any cis woman would tell her, being a 40+ woman with neither job nor life partner is not an easy road.
ReplyDelete