tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6712640935255311366.post4687656968548434974..comments2024-03-25T14:26:47.657-04:00Comments on A Gender Variance Who's Who: Thomas Baker (1680 - 1749) milliner, playwright, molly, lawyer, schoolteacher, vicarZagriahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15124379637664963835noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6712640935255311366.post-31220468733866509502012-03-05T15:20:24.060-05:002012-03-05T15:20:24.060-05:00Obviously no modern terms match closely. If you c...Obviously no modern terms match closely. If you cross-dressed as a woman in 18th century England, other than at carnival or on stage, and if you were not an aristocrat, then you would be a molly. I think that any attempt to distinguish between gay and trans is not going to work for this period, although rakes, sodomites and mollies were distinguished. I suggest the chapter by Trumbach that I cited. He is annoying in that he doesn't allow that mollies may be trans in the modern sense, but his is the best work so far on gay and trans in the period 1500-1800. He is clear that molly is a product of early modernity, and thus quite different from kathoeys and hijras who date from pre-modernity. <br /><br />I think that it is reasonable to compare the gallae of the Roman empire to hijras and kathoey. Where are such in medieval Europe? The christianists eradicated the gallae. For the next 1200 years there are only a handful of persons who are known to be trans in one sense or another (Joan of Arc etc), and none at all in a strong sense. Only with the coming of early modernity do trans persons reappear in Europe. The mollies were the first.<br /><br />The other part of Trumbach's thesis is that homosexuality also dates from only this period. Earlier, as in the ancient world, most men would have sex both with younger men and with women.Zagriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15124379637664963835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6712640935255311366.post-48834268290595651832012-03-05T14:08:42.196-05:002012-03-05T14:08:42.196-05:00I'm always confused with the term "molly....I'm always confused with the term "molly." In it's original sense, was it referring more to a femme gay man, someone who would be more trans-ID'd today or a catch all term somewhat like kathoey?Ginahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126067426459920339noreply@blogger.com